My son is disabled and in a group home. This weekend ther planning to put a Xmas tree in his living room. Can anyone help me with some ideas about how to stop them.

M--

M-- wrote about her son in a group home with a Xmas tree. My cousin is in a group home where the staff and other clients are Christian. My family makes it a point to bring a Menorah over there and light candles. We have my cousin and a staff member come to a Seder and Shabbos dinners . We do what we can. But we can't prevent the Christians from celebrating their holiday in their home!

Have good Thanksgiving -a secular holiday that Jews don't get grief about!

Love,
J--

My daughter married a non-Jew. They are very happy together. D-- puts his tree up and R-- lights Chanukah licht each night.

Seems to work for them.

A--

Well M--, you proved that I am an addict at least because I allowed your post to push a few of my buttons.

You might ask yourself a couple of things here. Are you taking on this crusade for YOU or for your son. I would be very surprised if you answered for your son.

A Christmas tree is pretty much a symbol in America, and I suppose I might want to thing in a manner more like, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Maybe you can suggest that the Christmas tree be topped with a Six pointed Blue and White Star!, of course you can always proclaim it a Chanukah Bush (my mother did that successfully for years)

Personally I would rejoice in it, as a symbol of a "nice American holiday" if nothing else. I love Christmas trees, They smell good, they bring joy to most of us, and sometimes I find that I have to let go of my personal "tilts at windmills" for the greater good.

Hope I haven't gone TOO far, (I seem to be pretty good at that as well.)

The very best to you, and everyone else on the list.

T--

I don't think you can stop them - even if they are completely government funded. You might contact the local ADL for further clarification of this issue. If they are private, there is no way you can.

Further on down this line, I'm not sure as to the wisdom of trying to stop this practice. I know this is strange coming from a rabbi and all (even a reform one - :-) ), but I am coming to believe that unless we consciously choose all-Jewish environments for ourselves, we had better realize that we must make accommodations to living as a minority in a majority culture.

As long as we are allowed, unhindered, to observe and celebrate our holidays and practices, we can do little but complain to an unreceptive audience. If your son is being coerced or forced into observing or celebrating a foreign religion, that is one thing. But celebrating with others is, to my mind, derech eretz - common courtesy and humanitarian understanding.

Happy Thanksgiving--

S--

T-- thinks Xmas & its symbols are nice secular parts of American culture. He thinks objecting to their imposition on non-Christians is "tilting at windmills" indicates a lack of understanding of the power of symbols and practices on the way people think and act.

It is clear that the pagan origins of such practices and the inherent and historical anti-Semitism that surround them have a profound influence on the society and how Jews function within it. It is demeaning and totally against Jewish essential Jewish tradition to have to adopt others' customs and practices.

. Living in myself I am well aware of the level of anti-semitism and insensitivity that exists here. Is the group home sponsored by a Christian organization? They certainly receive state and federal funds and it should be made clear that you find this manifestation of Christianity unacceptable and would appreciate if the principal symbol of this abominable holiday were removed. If they do not respond, you have decide what effect pursuing the matter would have on your son's welfare. Just raising the issue however may raise their sensitivity or at a minimum, make them aware that their actions are being watched. The indoctrination and brain-washing are long-standing Christian traditions and must be fought at every opportunity, even if it makes assimilated Jews with Chanukah bushes uncomfortable. A--

Thanks for your comments, a little discussion never hurt anyone. HOWEVER, I will stick to my Guns. With perhaps VERY small exceptions Christmas IS a nice secular holiday in America, and ranting against it is NOT going to change a thing, although now that I think about it, it may give a few skinheads a bit more ammunition!

My Father (blessed be he) used to always say, that "You can catch a lot more flies with Honey than with Vinegar". I used to hate that saying because:

1. It was True
2. Who wanted to catch flies anyway.
M never did state whether her objections were hers or her sons. I still believe this is the telling statement here. There is enough damage and hate in the world, without digging up more for a "cause" which will mainly effect someone else.

Y'know I have a license plate holder on the back of my car which reads:

Hate and Intolerance Are NOT Family Values.

I put it there because of some of the Right Wing Christian Fellowships and people in this area. perhaps I didn't realize it, but perhaps it pertains to ANY Right Wing Fellowship.

(My father used to have another saying. Whenever I would write an angry letter, he would bell me "To be sure and spell Bastard right" Y'know, the older I get, the less I have to use that word, and the more I revere my father - - - who I never got along with.)

My best to all of you.

T

M wrote a few days ago about her son's group home putting a Christmas tree in the living room. Sigh -- I have such mixed feelings about that. One of the things I've learned over the years is that many Christians don't have a clue about anything being offensive. It's not even insensitivity; it's total lack of awareness that anyone could possibly object. Well, maybe that's insensitivity.

It might be possible to sensitize them, but I doubt if they'd be able to comprehend a living room without a Christmas tree. Maybe the best thing to do is ignore it, and if possible, take your son out of there for Christmas.

The alternative is often bringing Chanukah into the Christian atmosphere, and I hate that more than I hate seeing the Christmas symbols. Chanukah is not the Jewish Christmas, and fortunately it doesn't overlap with Christmas this year. Christmas is central to Christianity; Chanukah is not central to Judaism, and the gift giving has gotten all out of proportion to compete with our Christian neighbors.

Several years ago, I walked into my daughter's elementary school and found a giant Santa Claus holding a menorah in the lobby. Oy vey!! I marched into the principal's office and told him it was inappropriate. It didn't do much good because this was the day before the winter break anyway, but at least I had my say. My daughter, of course, was mortified. I also hate seeing those blue and white stockings, and Christmas/Chanukah cards.

So, what do you do about living in a Christian world? I don't think it's asking for equal time which is what some Jews have done. I prefer to just try to ignore Christmas even when I'm surrounded by it, and hope that it won't be imposed on me too much. It's not going to kill me.

This doesn't answer M--'s question. At best, I'm getting a chance to spout off about my pet peeves for this time of year. I don't know what the answer is, except maybe let go and let God. If this is the best place to care for M--'s son, then perhaps it has to be. If it's not a Jewish place, then the help there absolutely don't understand Jewish objections, and also cannot visualize a living room with Christmas in it. IMO, this is a battle that can't be fought successfully.

Just think... in another month it will be over for the year.

b'shalom,

G--

Thanks so much for you feedback on the tree. That's exactly how I feel about it.

It is impossible to talk to a Jew that has had a tree as to any Christian about it. I realize thuis is a split issue but I am very sensitive to it. I find the Tree in my sons living room extremely offensive and inconsiderate towards Jews.

Even if this bothers me more than my son who by the way does'nt want the tree but is not able to advocate for himself by himself this group home for my son should be an extension of his own home. The house is a UCPA house with Federal and State funding. It seems that being a squeeky wheel has so far put a stop to thew tree. The other two mothers are very angry and I can understand that. It is also important to me that when I am no longer walking this earth my son is still respected as a Jew and nobody should ever forget that.

This is why I believe what we do today effects tomorrow.  Also THE Jewish Community has supported me about this issue which makes all the difference in the world.  It shows ultimately that we stand together. I have been very fortunate to experience great support from the Jewish community in B. over many issues surrounding my son. He even works part time at the Jewish Center. Through him I have learned much a bout what it truly means to be a Jew.

Love to all

M

Some days I just delete the digest and then I go through periods where I read them. I don't have the patients for long notes. So don't feel obligated to read mine. I have enjoyed reading what you all have been sharing. Christmas trees used to be a big issue for me. I would never join an alanon club because my money would go towards the Christmas tree and party. I used to avoid meetings where there was a tree. Of course this meant that I didn't get to many meeting during this time of year. That was not so good.

This is a hard time of year for everyone. Secular or religious Christian or Jewish or even Moslem. Over the years I have tried different things. My first year of sobriety I celebrated Christmas with my house mates for the first time in my life. It was a thrill to wake up in the morning and be able to see all of those gifts under the tree and get so many of lhem myself.

I have spent time avoiding Christmas and then realized that mostly I am real jealous of all the gifts and attention people get this time of year. For a few years I helped a friend decorate her tree I bought ornaments for her. I wanted her to enjoy her Christmas and help to make her holiday special. I enjoyed it for the secular beauty. Today 17 years after my first Christmas sober I have gotten a balance. I don't have to explain to everyone that Hanukah is not the Jewish Christmas and I don't have to refuse Christmas gifts.

Everyone knows that I am an observant Jew and respects my beliefs not necessarily understanding. THey don't need to . I even sometimes attend a seasonal party. I don't attend Jewish/Christian celebrations of Christmas. I am grateful that my resentments are clearing away. I still hate having to go out and buy Hanukah gifts for the family and friends that don't understand that it is not so important to give gifts, yet i love to receive them and as they say in recovery you have to give it away to keep it (or get it).

T, thanks for the reminder of your fathers saying. My father, who recently was nifter used to say the same thing and I hated it because it was hard for me to be nice not so much that it was true. I am finding out today that it is true. "You can catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar"

I am reminded of something I was told at a JACS retreat many years ago. If Bill W had realized that the lords prayer (which we say in Chicago at most meetings) would offend Jews he probably wouldn't have said it. I meant to mention that during the lords prayer discussions.

Happy Hanukah I wish you all health, wealth, happiness & freedom from self.

B

To all my JACS family out there: HAPPY CHANUKAH!!!

If we focus on the light, within and without, perhaps we can draw the healing power.

I remembered the way my son (now 20) reacted after a particular day at school. He was in first grade and his teacher (a very religious rabbi), had discussed the up coming "Goyische" holiday. I never found out exactly what the rabbi said, but I was dismayed at my son's virulent "yucch that's ugly" when we passed homes decorated for X-mas. I talked with him about the fact that people celebrated their holidays according to their own religion. I told him that although we did not have a tree or lights, it was not nice to make fun of others.

I recall challenging him on some of the things we saw, asking him what made it ugly. He was at a loss. Subsequently, in the years that followed, I always made a point to comment on a particularly lively or clever display.

I know that tolerance is not always warranted, but I hope that in this world, unless it harms another person, we can allow others to practice their religion. And they in turn will allow us our Menorahs.

(The countdown begins...Chanukah here we come.)

C