I'm so excited to be among recovering Jews. Why? I don't think I'll have to listen to the Lord's Prayer, which I refuse to say, so I pray in Hebrew. And, at a few anniversaries, I felt it was my right to lead the prayer in Hebrew. ;-)

 If I have to take a meeting "out" I either ask someone else to say the Lord's Prayer or I say "Who's father?" and then everyone jumps in. It may sound little but I've never found that in my Humesh so I refuse. Another thing that bothers me is the Jesus freaks.

 I have a really hard time when someone brings that into a topic and keeps bringing it up. I usually read them the part about this not being a religious program. I'm wondering how you all handle it and would appreciate hearing.

 I get resentments when people try to get me to take the holy spirit into my soul. They usually get some statements they'd rather not hear. There's a Baptist Minister who tried once, and I really gave it to him. The next time he saw me he was with a group of people and he said, "This is P, our Jewish American Queen, ain't never been no princess, went directly to Queen." By that remark, I said, "Had enough, X?" 

Would appreciate hearing your experience, strength and hope. 

ehugs, P- 

At JACS events, if I remember correctly they end meetings with the Shema, first in Hebrew, then in English,then "keep coming back." 

And I remember two rabbis at a JACS affair answering the question "Should Jews say the Lord's prayer at the end of the meetings." The answers were typically rabbinical, that is each had an opinion. 

One said ( this is my memory so don't hold them to it) "Yes, if you want to, because it actually had Jewish origins." The other Rabbi who was hemself recovering, said. "yes, if you want to, because you if it's to save your life, there's an automatic halachic dispensation. Since alcoholism and addiction are deadly disease, and AA and NA is the treatment, you can do the things they tell you to do." 

Personal reaction: most of the time I say it because it feels like fellowship not prayer. When a speaker has been too much of a holy roller for Jesus, or starts off with the Whose father business, I grit my teeth and dummy up because I feel alienated. 

I remember a holy roller type in a meeting in Santa Fe, Mexico. going much too Christy for my comfort and I shared back that this was not a religious program, in that room we were native Americans, Jews, Christians and what have you and why ignore that not everybody's Christian. 

Brooklyn is big on CIA, aren't we all Irish American Catholics, the answer is no. There's about 20 - 25% Jews in my meetings. 

Let's hear from the others. 

Let's see what others say. KCB 

But I think its an individual thing. In my layperson's opinion, if someone feels he is saving his life by saying the prayer and being part of the fellowship in that way, than he IS saving his life and it would be permitted. Personally for me I cannot bring myself to say it. Judaism teaches that mouthing words is a very powerful thing to do. Its a very real action for a human to take (ie prayer, learning, gossip, humiliating someone...). And for me mouthing words that have been said for thousands of years by Christians to Yushka feels like it would have to have spiritual repercussions inside of me. I know emotionally I don't want to do it, and don't feel like its saving me or helping me recover in any way. 

 I have had some very trying times with Born Agains, etc. in meetings and other 12 Step situations. I've been around long enough that when I feel it is violating the Traditions I speak up.

 If it comes up in one on one conversation I listen (I'm always open to learning something), if I feel it warrants a response I give one (not always the response they hoped for). I took a very interesting 8 week class at the University of Judaism in Los Angeles on dealing with Born Agains, Evangelicals, Jews for Jesus, etc. It gave me a lot of confidence in facing them -- if and when it is needed. 

As far as the Lord's Prayer is concerned. I had a very traumatic experience when I was about 10 or 11. My first sleep away camp. I don't think my parents were aware of its true religious affiliation (definitely not Jewish). 

The very first night I was asked to lead the Lord's Prayer. I'd never even heard of it. I said I didn't know it. I was ridiculed and made fun of. I was the object of derision the next two weeks. That trauma has been with me for 40 years. 

You can imagine my response at my first AA meeting. I was scared enough as it was. My disease was telling me I wasn't like the rest of them. I was looking for any excuse not to remain. When they closed with that prayer, it was the perfect excuse for my addict/disease.

 But G-d was with me. I didn't fall prey to my own sick thinking. I listened to the words and what they meant to me -- not to where the words originated or what my past experience had been. It actually helped keep me coming back. It helped me to learn tolerance and acceptance. 

In time the symbolism of the prayer has become important to me. I modify it somewhat to meet my needs. I quietly whisper "B'rouch atah, etc" during the first few words, then go on with the prayer. 

I always keep the vision of my Higher Power, whom I call "I am" in front of me and I always keep my eyes open as I view every member of the meeting and wish G-d's will for them. 

By the way, I got sober during Passover. That's a topic for another time. Oh yeah, my original question. Just what does Yushka refer to.